N°9 - The Architecture of Obsession with Suzi Gray

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00:01:36: I'm your host Yasmin... ...and THIS IS THE PREMIUM WAY.

00:01:44: Welcome to

00:01:45: the very,

00:01:45: very first guest-expert interview episode in and on The Premium Way podcast.

00:01:52: In front of me I look at the beaming beautiful marvellous Susie Gray... ...the woman behind turning leaders into household names!

00:02:05: And i would hand you the mic right away and just invite who you are, what you do.

00:02:12: Not necessarily inside of the labels box but just whatever wants to come through about yourself and the rest people can find about you on social media anyways.

00:02:21: Of course beautiful.

00:02:22: thank you so much!

00:02:23: Thank you for having me.

00:02:24: I'm very excited to be in conversation with you.

00:02:27: So hello i am Susie Gray.

00:02:31: I've been in business for over a decade now, which makes me feel like a dinosaur in this online space.

00:02:35: But it means...I get to bring up good range of wisdom hopefully too the table.

00:02:41: so my specialism really is in brand positioning and messaging for personal brands And um Like you said helping them become household names In their niche.

00:02:55: That can mean whatever you want.

00:02:56: It's not about fame or building a global empire necessarily, unless that's what you want of course.

00:03:05: But it's how can really become the top-of-my-name?

00:03:10: The name people trust... ...the names they want to associate themselves with and build a brand that is reputable,... ...that is commercially desirable and stands at test time in this for the long game, as are my clients.

00:03:31: As I think you and your clients all are

00:03:33: too.".

00:03:34: And yeah there's so much richness to the work that we do through that brand positioning messaging lens.

00:03:45: And I think this is such an opportune time for distinct voices to come to the forefront and really lead conversations culture, and really shift the status quo.

00:04:01: And that's what excites me most about my work in.

00:04:05: The People I Love to Support are those who were seeking it too.

00:04:09: I

00:04:10: love how you worded all of this!

00:04:12: Can we dive into one piece right away where he said conversations shaped culture and changed a status quo basically?

00:04:22: What do these or what are the ingredients basically set of such conversations, of such angles that really redefine our shape culture and then change the status quo?

00:04:33: Or at least impact it.

00:04:35: Yeah so I think when as business owners especially when you come into business... That's not necessarily what your thinking about because its' about how do i create offers, how do I market those offers?

00:04:51: How do i get sales for those

00:04:53: offers?".

00:04:53: And so we build our skill set with those things in mind.

00:04:58: But then as you become more established and you can do those things it's like what is there beyond that?

00:05:09: That's where this conversation really happens.

00:05:15: what do you want your business, your brand to be on?

00:05:17: just being able to make sales?

00:05:21: To market offers.

00:05:24: And that's where this kind of cultural conversation piece comes in and I think now more than ever the brands are really going And that's not new, but the point of view it needs to have has to actually be something that feels different.

00:05:51: That feels distinct and offers an unconventional or a contrarian alternative...to two that status quo.

00:06:00: Two that conventional narrative.

00:06:06: Not everyone has one.

00:06:08: I think its important to name.

00:06:10: like when i talk about thought leadership and leading these kinds of conversations, I don't think everybody wants to do that.

00:06:19: And iI don't Think Everybody has.

00:06:21: it is best place To Do That?

00:06:24: So It's not about creating a hot take or having A polarizing opinion just for the sake Of It in order to get views Or Get Attention!

00:06:37: Its so much deeper than what are you actually here to do?

00:06:43: If you want to create a cultural shift, What is that like... You have to know.

00:06:53: That's deeper first before you can start having conversations around it and so often these are conversation for the right person.

00:07:03: These are conversations you're probably already having either in your own head with your notes app with your besties, with your peers.

00:07:12: But there's that almost... Reluctance feels like a strong word but there is an almost fear of some kind about taking the conversation publicly and usually thats the sign for me as to this real conversation you want be having or leading because you know its little bit on edge.

00:07:37: It feels different to be the one, To bring that forward.

00:07:42: To actually start conversation.

00:07:44: it can feel easy to kind of tag onto something someone else has started but is what you're really here for?

00:07:52: If want a thought leader then go first and decide on your face or name.

00:08:02: I would say that's the key ingredient, is the conversations you're already having in private.

00:08:08: That you have felt a little bit hesitant to actually take

00:08:12: public?

00:08:13: Yeah yeah totally agree.

00:08:15: and also when working with my clients what we do when they are in

00:08:19: that phase

00:08:21: What we do is like managing expectations as well because very often it's what you said.

00:08:26: You feel on edge with that certain POV and then put out there, no one really reacted to this.

00:08:35: or I should probably not go with this or stick with this.

00:08:39: but my response most of the time was what did you expect?

00:08:42: As a pioneer are slightly ahead.

00:08:46: so give people some time to acclimate your point To catch up with it to even see or recognize its.

00:08:55: and the expectation can't be instant gratification of validation when what you're putting forward is a completely new conversation Or at least one completely new angle of an existing conversation.

00:09:06: And so What do you think is important?

00:09:09: How do you help your clients go through that edginess without abandoning mission, basically

00:09:16: Yeah.

00:09:17: So it's like You're exposing yourself in a way, but it's also the audience.

00:09:23: The public.

00:09:24: they have to be exposed too that idea and number of times potentially before They can actually feel like they could associate out with you or they really understand what your talking about.

00:09:35: so It's like the most basic rule Of marketing like repetition.

00:09:40: repetition is important.

00:09:42: So if this is something important conversation for you to lead, then that doesn't mean having it once.

00:09:49: You've got a habit over and over again talk about in different ways without necessarily expecting or feeling entitled to that validation For it.

00:10:00: And if It is important enough To you Then?

00:10:03: You know you have to make That decision.

00:10:06: are you willing to keep?

00:10:07: just sit In this discomfort until You know do start to see that reaction from other people until you do stop actually see that resonance.

00:10:17: and I Remind my clients.

00:10:21: That just because we don't receive that Knowingly doesn't mean it's not resonating Really important.

00:10:35: So many especially when, you know When you get to a certain level?

00:10:38: I expect you Many of your clients will come to you having Never liked a post of yours having never commented on something of yours And that is so normal.

00:10:51: I think especially in you know, when your Maybe you've been in business for long time You're operating at a certain level That's that it's normal and So it's not.

00:11:02: but people aren't seeing What you're saying aren't agreeing with what?

00:11:06: You're saying I'm feeling deeply moved by.

00:11:08: What your saying but they may not be publicly reacting to it and That is fine.

00:11:14: that Is fine, you.

00:11:16: its your job Your responsibility to sit With the how just How uncomfortable that May feel And keep doing It anyway and we Have done this so many times as business owners like.

00:11:28: The whole journey is Just one kind of wild ride.

00:11:34: we've

00:11:35: navigated through that over and over again.

00:11:38: And this is just another one of those examples, who are you in that void?

00:11:44: How do you lead yourself when you're not experiencing that validation or public recognition applause?

00:11:51: can you hold yourself for long enough to get through the point where You actually seeing it starting to land with people?

00:12:01: Yeah,

00:12:01: so beautifully said and such an important point.

00:12:04: mentioning that just because the validation is not public doesn't mean it's not there.

00:12:08: Like you and me probably also have experienced that on the client side of thing or on the recipient side of things where I know the content pieces that stick with me And The Creator Probably Doesn't Even Know Exist Because It'S Not Necessarily Our Default instinct to drop into someone's inbox right away and be like, oh my god your post changed my life.

00:12:28: Like sometimes I do that but not with the majority of

00:12:32: things.".

00:12:32: And so beautiful that you put that out there!

00:12:36: You really mentioned in this conversation as well regarding The Repetition many people being very dopamine driven especially conditioned by how social media works.

00:12:50: What do you have to say to clients that come to you or the people who are listening right now?

00:12:54: Who

00:12:55: consciously know, okay repetition is key and I know but they still fall short as soon it gets too boring.

00:13:03: Or as soon like there's sounding a broken record And then oh!

00:13:07: A little slight change won't hurt But then it cracks your perception building right now, yet again.

00:13:14: And so like just how do you support yourself and your clients?

00:13:17: Just staying through not just the void but even the feelings of boredom or the urges off?

00:13:24: can I add some spice to it?

00:13:30: Yes yeah!

00:13:31: So i think this is really where The Power Of Stories comes in.

00:13:39: know that storytelling is so important in marketing, but I think it's such an opportunity when you have this core message.

00:13:49: That is important to repeat Is important too be constantly associated with In order To become more recognized for it known For It.

00:14:00: Yes!

00:14:02: It can feel a bit boring you know, so repetitive to you that if I'm bored with this then surely other people are bored.

00:14:11: That's a lie!

00:14:15: But the... This is where storytelling can be so powerful because it gives me an opportunity to share a message in many different ways.

00:14:25: there were so many angles that you could approach a message when telling a story around and You know, there are so many different ways that we can tell stories.

00:14:37: They could be about us other people our clients something That's nothing to do with us internal external.

00:14:45: and I think when you When you can share through the lens of a story it like The message is just an add-on almost Like if your embodied in a message then it is natural for you to share that message through a story.

00:15:10: and where's the repetition then?

00:15:14: I don't know if i've explained that very well.

00:15:17: It did, in makes a lot of sense...it's basically changing your outfits like one new outfit every weekday.

00:15:30: The person wearing it stays the same but the outfit and packaging changes.

00:15:36: maybe my attitude is changing a little bit based on what I'm wearing because that influences us, right?

00:15:41: But ultimately the core stays the same and i think that can be a metaphor that reflects it.

00:15:47: Because sometimes people also feel like am i maybe abandoning things or being sketchy or whatever?

00:15:52: but no when the core stay's the same you can mix up the packaging and play with it and have fun with it.

00:15:59: ultimately yeah...I love that metaphor.

00:16:03: the outfit you choose for Monday might speak to a different person compared to the outfit on a Tuesday.

00:16:12: And it's just the same.

00:16:13: with stories that are telling or all of your content sharing, even if you write one in mind everyone is going to resonate something differently.

00:16:22: so more stories have the message at center.

00:16:28: they're going to speak to different people and that's what you want.

00:16:31: You want different people to be drawn in, to your world.

00:16:36: so I love that metaphor!

00:16:38: I love it when you say this and also talk about each outfit or story angle addressing different people.

00:16:45: It must have been almost on the day three years ago now That i published a post where at that time i was launching vanilla detox.

00:16:55: someone inquired about it, and then I gave her the details.

00:16:58: And she said sounds interesting or sounds good.

00:17:01: however not something i'm currently interested in...and I just kept promoting promoting promoting rolling the angles that I promote this offer from which has been a core concept of my work ever since as well!

00:17:13: Then eleven days later same person in my DMs okay send me the link.

00:17:18: yeah

00:17:21: That one piece, that outfit on a Monday didn't speak to her.

00:17:25: But then the outfit on Thursday did and so she was like oh I didn't see myself in this before but now i do!

00:17:32: So now I want to become part of it.

00:17:37: How consciously are you working with and suggesting your clients who work being intentional about speaking different biotypes or receiver types?

00:17:48: of the same method?

00:17:50: I don't think it's something i focus on too much because,i think you can get a bit in your head when you do that and a lot of my clients spend enough time in their head as they are very intellectual.

00:18:06: They think things through ,and that could be beautiful trait but also holds back especially with content.

00:18:16: I don't sort of teach content buckets or specific ideal client types, even though everybody buys differently.

00:18:27: It's more important for the individual to feel in tune with what they want to express their message.

00:18:33: so being clear on that big idea at the centre is your unique edge as a human and business owner.

00:18:43: How do you want to express that big idea and the edge that you have in a way, that aligns with your strengths?

00:18:52: Aligns with your preferences.

00:18:55: That feels most natural to you... That allows you best connect with your creativity.

00:19:02: I think when you can create content from that place.. ..that is going be so much more effective.

00:19:10: calling in the right person or speaking to resonating with the right.

00:19:13: Person than trying to fit yourself into, you know?

00:19:18: Like okay I want speak to this specific biotype today Or i'm going use their specific framework Today.

00:19:25: those things have that place and think it's important to have awareness of them And the psychology behind then.

00:19:30: but when It comes to expression like That needs To feel more like is there a creative force thats just being released?

00:19:40: I find that tends to hit better when people are more in tune with that compared using a proven framework or hook formula.

00:19:54: Yeah, i totally agree as well.

00:19:55: and whenever i get asked about like what's your strategy on addressing all the biotypes?

00:20:02: And making sure you're message lands in all of ways Honestly, I'm the person who connects data in real time.

00:20:08: So i put what wants to come through out there and then i check the resonance.

00:20:14: Then i check in.

00:20:15: okay Who replied to that?

00:20:17: Who resonated with That um And who didn't?

00:20:21: maybe as well over time so i can see.

00:20:23: Okay How do things that i put out There actually land instead of just being my head and sitting In assumptions?

00:20:29: because I feel like we're often taught to just sit and get clear on your ideal client avatar, the demographics of the psychographics.

00:20:40: And all the rotations in a message story and the biotypes are everything!

00:20:45: Then you put it out there... ...and completely differs from assumptions that have been made up in your head and then people are lost.

00:20:52: And I'm like, oh what do i do now?

00:20:54: Because my plan is not working!

00:20:56: Now I have no more orientation or whatever.

00:20:58: so you're also a three-line in human design aren't you?

00:21:02: Three

00:21:02: five yeah well remember

00:21:06: it um I'm a one three.

00:21:07: So put yourself out there watch days that keep going.

00:21:12: basically Yeah That's the approach where I personally gather most data from and what really led to a deeper understanding of people that has actually been applied, and tested.

00:21:25: And not just assumes in the quietness of my chamber.

00:21:28: basically

00:21:29: Yeah I love that!

00:21:34: A lot at times we try generate more clarity for ourselves In our own head.

00:21:40: You can't get the clarity you're seeking until how you get clarity, not just thinking about something and trying to get clear on it.

00:21:52: It's the act of creation itself and putting something out there that every time you do that gets you closer to being clear or whatever is.

00:22:02: And The other thing I would say Is giving yourself enough Time To gather That data.

00:22:09: i think if a lot Of people Think If I don't experience immediately or within a couple of days like you were mentioning earlier, then it means that hasn't landed.

00:22:20: It's like... You've got to give your message a chance!

00:22:24: Like..You have to give it time and have enough eyes on it.

00:22:29: Have it exist in the world for long enough to actually gather data that is reliable enough to make any decisions based off?

00:22:37: Yeah yeah when clients come see them they're like okay but How long is long enough Susie?

00:22:43: and when?

00:22:44: it's the point where I know this?

00:22:46: Is out there long enough, but it's clearly not working like Get again that question coming from the head.

00:22:52: And from the seeking of safety essentially What's your response to them?

00:22:56: hmmm?

00:22:56: I mean i think you need To give something a good three months to really allow yourself too You Know Really like find Your comfort in It.

00:23:09: Like if This going back to your outfit metaphor, like if this is something new you're putting on.

00:23:15: Like You might need a bit of time To really feel comfortable with that and find how do I want to wear This?

00:23:22: How do i wanna accessorize this?

00:23:24: What does it best pair With?

00:23:27: Who Does It Make Me Feel Like Today?

00:23:29: And so...you Want Give Time to Breathe.

00:23:34: We don't give our ideas enough time to actually breathe in the world and so I think yeah a good three months to really solidify, you know this This message these angles These are the points of view that.

00:23:51: I really want to lead with have conversation around Conversations around start to become known and recognized for like Yeah That's not gonna be a few days We're talking in a few months And then we can yeah analyze if your if you'd like to do that look at how it felt, how it feels and maybe make decisions about what may be needs tweaking from there or what you want to double down on most often.

00:24:19: It's not like this hasn't worked.

00:24:21: I need to change.

00:24:22: it is... What was the piece that really landed?

00:24:24: And How can i leverage that more?

00:24:26: How Can I Double Down On That?

00:24:27: Yeah

00:24:28: I love that.

00:24:30: so

00:24:31: basically responded to story of yours where you were talking about content actually being more passive game because it's I put myself out then and basically wait for the response to come back.

00:24:42: And while i want to go into the angle of proactively putting yourself out there in front other opportunities later on, we often associate constant volume with being top-of-mind Right?

00:24:56: But you're not necessarily the content factory type of person.

00:24:59: Like, You don't teach people I post five reels a day then send two emails today in the morning and in the evening And do this and that all these things.

00:25:08: So psychologically what creates What actually creates top-of-mind positioning Without being on a content hamster wheel frequency.

00:25:21: It's not just energy, like.

00:25:22: there is a psychological process to it very shortly or the framework hallelujah.

00:25:29: so yeah you mentioned being top of mind and tip-of-tongue as well.

00:25:33: what do you think actually creates that psychologically?

00:25:38: because we've seen people can post constantly are still very forgettable?

00:25:42: So

00:25:43: if it doesn't have

00:25:43: to deal with volume... What about?

00:25:46: I think it is important to speak too, like the mere exposure effect psychologically.

00:25:53: The more somebody does see you and your name... ...the more likely that they will remember or recognise you!

00:26:02: But if what they see doesn't resonate… …or sounds like everyone else… That doesn't mean you'll be top of mind in the right way for the right thing.

00:26:17: This is where it's so much more important to, visibility is important.

00:26:21: Yes!

00:26:22: But what the potency is so much More important than volume?

00:26:28: So What Is that message you are sharing in first place and how Are You Sharing That In A Way That Is Distinct That Is Meant For A Particular Kind Of Person And How Does That Disrupt Something Within Them?

00:26:46: When you can create some kind of disruption in somebody, when you are presenting an insight or angle that stops them into their tracks and like I've never heard it said before.

00:26:59: Or this articulates a way i have been feeling about having not even put words to.

00:27:08: You could create one piece with so much more power than ten pieces that just don't really hit the spot.

00:27:21: So it's not about not creating or wanting to create less, what is the energy we can channel into each piece?

00:27:31: To make sure they are as strong and potent and emotionally resonant... As it could possibly be!

00:27:43: It isn't something somebody scrolls past.

00:27:45: It's something they want to sit with.

00:27:48: They want to breathe in and Something that will actually Stay with them.

00:27:55: beyond That, you know minute-in time we want concepts stories that people Actually remember.

00:28:03: like the brain loves a story as well I mentioned stories.

00:28:06: The brain loves this story or so much more likely To Remember A Story Compared to just.

00:28:12: You Know some facts And so when you're able to do that, the volume becomes less important.

00:28:24: I love all of them!

00:28:28: So there's a reason.

00:28:31: both of us resonate with each other at this work and we very much speak about similar things just different vocabulary.

00:28:38: sometimes I just like had to nod all the time internally while he was speaking because this is literally what i call brand gravity, right?

00:28:48: It's something that

00:28:50: comes with

00:28:50: weight and a certain magnitude.

00:28:53: And it's also the philosophy of my brand, my work and my approach ever since That.

00:29:01: why would put ten diluted pieces out there?

00:29:05: Just keep up certain cadence instead of just that one piece,

00:29:13: that really

00:29:15: stays with people and that really lingers.

00:29:18: And you also talk a lot about the architecture of obsession right so... You partly answered that already but still what do you think makes someone really like linger mentally long after The Interaction ended even?

00:29:33: You mentioned stories but can we go a little bit

00:29:35: more?

00:29:35: Yeah I think this is where Intellectual property is becoming more and more important.

00:29:41: It's never not been important, but I think especially in you know the age of AI And The Amount Of Content That Does Exist On You Know on The Internet Or In The World Having Taking Ownership Over Concepts that Can Be A Framework But it Goes Far Beyond That and then having a brand language around it that is distinct to you, that's uncopiable.

00:30:11: That will become more important when we have those pieces... It'll be so much easier for people to remember us because there are different levels of obsession but somebody to start thinking in your own thinking.

00:30:33: So it's not just about admiration or, you know I like this person its...I feel such a pull towards their way of thinking that this is now how i want to think!

00:30:46: It's almost like there was before this person and now there's after this person.

00:30:49: then There has been real non-reversible shift You Know?

00:30:55: And That hits at cognitive level emotional level and an identity Level, And you want to be making sure that you hit all three?

00:31:04: To really create that level of Obsession.

00:31:09: I have a free podcast called The Obsession Effect That speaks about the Three Gaps that need to Be Closed.

00:31:15: So first one is the Perception Gap.

00:31:17: This Is Really About Building That Authority.

00:31:22: Second is the Trust Gap You may have seen me speak about this the other day, like a lot of people talk about you know being in a trust recession and My view is we're not in a Trust Recession.

00:31:35: We're in a discernment boom And it's an opportunity for you to when you are someone who acts on integrity Which I'm sure anyone listening to this podcast will Like It's such an opportunity For you To really close that trust gap by sharing your wisdom sharing Your concepts In ways That help People Really See You're embodied in what you do.

00:31:57: And I love the way, The unique way that you approach things and That speaks to me more than anything else i've ever tried and seen before?

00:32:06: And then the final one is the desire gap.

00:32:08: this Is really where if it's an offer that your selling Or It could be...you know..You can sell much More Than An Offer.

00:32:16: Um....It Could Be An Idea!

00:32:17: It Could Be A Partnership Opportunity Whatever It Is But Its Making It Feel Like commercially desirable, like bringing that obsession with.

00:32:29: this is not just someone who influences me but I actually directly want to be associated with them in their world.

00:32:40: Yeah so

00:32:42: how would you

00:32:44: or

00:32:44: what advice can you give someone

00:32:45: whose

00:32:46: now asking themselves?

00:32:49: How do i actually distill my IP?

00:32:51: Like idea download in the middle of the day to draft, then locked-in concept that really is like.

00:33:00: what are maybe even markers you have or measurements for a solid locked-ins concept.

00:33:10: So often This is something you would do really naturally with your clients to the point where it feels like, doesn't everyone do this?

00:33:18: Or does not everybody know that.

00:33:21: It's second nature for them because they are.

00:33:25: To be able to recognise what I am doing every single time and how different from other people or don't do.

00:33:38: A question I love to ask is, what... What do i do that my competitors can't?

00:33:44: Or won't do?

00:33:45: and when you start exploring those kinds of questions You will be able to see parts of your approach Parts of the way that you think That Do feel distinct like you know.

00:33:57: Like what do you know gets Your clients results?

00:34:00: specifically How Can you pull Those pieces out and give them a name.

00:34:05: So I say, um, name it frame it claim it.

00:34:09: so how can you if it's just a particular technique?

00:34:12: Just giving it a name in and of itself?

00:34:14: It could be really small thing doesn't have to be your entire brand framework or modality although that could be.

00:34:22: but what is the really small things?

00:34:24: do You know its powerful?

00:34:27: nobody else does.

00:34:28: How Can Give A Name?

00:34:29: What frame can you place around it like.

00:34:31: this is how I describe?

00:34:33: This particular approach, this particular concept.

00:34:36: This is why It's different.

00:34:38: This Is Why It Gets Results.

00:34:40: and then How Can You Actually Claim That Publicly?

00:34:42: so talking about it as if it is your own unique Concept.

00:34:47: And that's How You Start to Build Those Associations.

00:34:50: So People Don't Just start To Know You Because of Your Niche They Start to know You because of this really specific tool or technique, a concept that because they've seen you talk about it over and over.

00:35:00: And then they associate that with the results that you get.

00:35:03: That's what will start to not only build your authority but create desire for The work.

00:35:20: put myself or brand myself into jail with this, but still leave space and room to evolve.

00:35:26: And take people with me and not build resentment inside of my audience because they are now like... But we're so holding on to this what we know you for?

00:35:36: We're unwilling to come with you wherever your going now cause'we don't even know if we liked it yet.

00:35:43: Just talk about another one!

00:35:44: It gets too.

00:35:45: be that simple in my eyes.

00:35:47: I love

00:35:48: that.

00:35:48: Um,

00:35:51: yeah.

00:35:52: I think that like...I don't necessarily see them as boxes.

00:35:55: it's almost like this is just a string to my bow.

00:35:59: It's not a box i'm putting myself in.

00:36:01: This Is Just Another String To My Bow and the more I can add The More Likely It Is That Im Going To Resonate With The Right Person And..i Think It Would Be.

00:36:12: It's not impossible, but it's unusual for somebody to want to make a complete kind of one-aity shift with their brand.

00:36:18: So if you know they've been talking about something for a long time and feel like there is more now or I have done so much development on my own approach over the last couple years...I felt really being pulled in this direction.

00:36:37: I just take people on the journey with you.

00:36:41: Just because, maybe stop talking about one concept and want to start talking another doesn't mean that you abandon all of the brand equity that you've already built.

00:36:50: And there are people who will be right for in this sort-of next era.

00:36:55: They'll come with you.

00:36:57: It's as long as you talk about it As long as we take them With us or welcome them On a journey and help see why its still relevant Then they're coming.

00:37:07: They'll come with you.

00:37:08: It's not even something that you need to be worried about, and if it doesn't resonate with some people cool like You've outgrown them too And that's okay.

00:37:17: Love that on point!

00:37:20: I love the way he said...it really gets me there easy.

00:37:22: just talk About another one a new one and recreated long enough until People associate you With that or associated That with you.

00:37:30: And so we like briefly right now already touched on brand loyalty, basically due to these associations that then lead two cents of safety as well and all these things.

00:37:41: But ultimately kind of not glue me too a person but former relationship?

00:37:48: Right!

00:37:49: That is also something you messaged in the story.

00:37:51: I responded when said hey do want come onto the podcast be my guest where you said circling back into this conversation.

00:38:01: content actually is rather passive, because you put it out there and then you've got to hope for the best ultimately.

00:38:07: Despite everyone telling you how much can influence people's minds on all of these things.

00:38:12: but your take also as like.

00:38:14: we really want a focus in relationships And I very very much resonated with that Because That Is How I Build My Business, that is how i build my demand before even had an offer multiple times.

00:38:25: so That has always been my pathway too, but for everyone listening like how do you not know?

00:38:33: How do you build a relationship?

00:38:34: that's maybe not the right question But ultimately like organically focusing on relationships.

00:38:41: How can a brand actually do that?

00:38:43: I think it's just about having genuine conversations.

00:38:50: Like.

00:38:51: i think that It's okay to acknowledge that we're in business and a business exists To make money like literally that's just what a business.

00:39:00: It has to do right.

00:39:02: so there is the aspect of it.

00:39:05: but When you when you just seek to build a network whether thats excuse me, whether that online or offline and You go into it from with generosity you know, mutual respect without an expectation of a return from a conversation then it's a breeding ground for opportunities.

00:39:34: and when somebody knows you more intimately.

00:39:38: You are more likely to be top-of-mind for them When you make the effort to care about someone on level like on a you know, one-to-one level.

00:39:51: They remember that!

00:39:52: You know people want to feel thought of and respected.

00:39:57: That makes them feel good.

00:39:59: And if your name is associated with those feelings... ...that Is going create obsession and create loyalty.

00:40:09: So much quicker so much deeper than even an amazing piece of content you know, size of a coin maybe.

00:40:20: It's not that content isn't incredibly important and we don't want to be putting effort into it if... We do!

00:40:26: We want that presence, we want to building our body of work ,we want to communicating message but at the same time we want looking who we have deep relationships with.

00:40:39: I'm like YOU.

00:40:41: I built my business based on relationships, who knew me and then you establish yourself.

00:40:49: And i discovered more of the online world than you build from there.

00:40:53: but it's not in either or .

00:40:57: A lot people can forget that or feel too much reliance to content creation.

00:41:03: if they create enough content create great content, then that will automatically create all of the results I want in my business.

00:41:12: And i'm never going to say it's not possible but its so much more likely or even faster if you're also prioritising relationships around and pursuing opportunities for yourself rather than hoping they come as a result of the body of work you created.

00:41:36: Yeah, yeah absolutely and I don't know about you but i feel like we're really coming back to more relationship-based way of doing business again.

00:41:46: And...I do think what played big parts is also that We've been taught lots when we connect with people build relationships have conversations in the DMs were just being categorized into friend zone made more people than people actually want to admit, like retreat from relationship building because they were scared that this would actually harm their business.

00:42:13: Paradoxically This is what will actually boost your business.

00:42:16: Yeah

00:42:18: And it's really sad that we retreated from human connection just because we're afraid That was put into a friend zone.

00:42:24: where are then not being respected authorities and no longer hired?

00:42:28: I really sat with the question a lot.

00:42:32: How can I be so close to my clients very often and still be so highly respected, well paid without negotiations or objections?

00:42:42: Because it is about genuine connection.

00:42:48: If something reminds me of them as you said... ...I send over!

00:42:52: And every single touch point of that relationship just deepens and it's going to be reciprocated over time anyways.

00:43:00: For me personally, this is the most beautiful thing.

00:43:02: I'm a type-of person so that really fills my heart.

00:43:07: You mentioned the pursuit for opportunities beyond putting content out there hoping for the best.

00:43:13: So ultimately what makes your pursuit feel more powerful instead of desperate?

00:43:20: Ooh, that's a lovely question.

00:43:23: Um... Oh I've never thought about it like that and i think thats probably- That is probably a good thing.

00:43:34: A woman in her power asking for what she wants from a place of conviction groundedness belief in herself..I don't think could ever be perceived as desperate.

00:43:51: That's probably why I've never considered it.

00:43:54: Um, i think its people are far more likely to respect somebody who just asks for what they want.

00:44:02: that's my experience at least and you're like so much likely...more likely to get a yes!

00:44:10: Just because you've asked for it whether you come across powerful or not?

00:44:15: Just

00:44:16: the fact you've asked.

00:44:21: So yeah, I think just having a knowing that this is what i want.

00:44:25: This Is why I wanted it and depending on What the opportunity?

00:44:28: It's like what is it That you bring to The table?

00:44:30: that makes it A no-brainer To say yes too.

00:44:34: That is Like.

00:44:35: that's the only energy You need to worry about.

00:44:37: not not desperation um Its its a whole different.

00:44:43: How Different frequency i suppose isn't it?

00:44:45: it's Not.

00:44:45: uh this has to happen or else my life will crumble.

00:44:50: I'm pursuing this because i believe that is meant for me and im going to be the one.

00:44:55: To go take it, to be audacious ,to make a bold ask rather than just hoping it happens or not.

00:45:03: wanting people to perceive as desperate because of asked for

00:45:13: it."

00:45:21: speaks volumes on your POV and you're distinct by thinking about this, right?

00:45:26: Because I also heard about the other side a lot where women are very afraid of coming crosses especially women.

00:45:31: Coming across as needy!

00:45:34: And that then ties back into the whole history of us suppressing our needs and not competing or whatever.

00:45:39: it is

00:45:39: Right?!

00:45:40: So when we hear another woman like you speak powerfully in very convictedly About how desperate even an option here I think that is the most empowering frequency you could have exuded right now in answering this question.

00:45:54: So, thank-you for that!

00:45:57: And then so to seal and finalize our beautiful conversation even though i can talk to you for eight hours probably... I know!

00:46:04: I'm always so sad when things end because there's so much more to say!

00:46:09: Anyways while we're on it what are opportunities that your so glad that you asked for?

00:46:15: The bold audacious asks maybe

00:46:17: Oh, so I mean the most obvious one that comes to mind.

00:46:22: She wrote a post about it recently was A Long Time Ago.

00:46:25: So my background is...I Was a lawyer?

00:46:29: So i trained as a lawyer.

00:46:30: That was like The path I was on and then It got To a point where I realized I don't think this Is supposed to be My Path.

00:46:37: And um..so I thought Like who Who's in my network?

00:46:41: Who do I have an existing relationship with?

00:46:44: Who I Think would Be prepared too like, give me even a conversation.

00:46:49: That was all I were seeking at this point and so i made...I invited somebody who uh..was the director of an advertising agency.

00:46:57: once I was like- I think maybe this could be my path.

00:47:00: um out for coffee!

00:47:03: So we met We had a conversation And we noticed that there was real mutual benefit Like available.

00:47:11: They needed someone to take on portion.

00:47:13: well they didn't know that they needed it, but they were going to outsource it.

00:47:17: So that means budget lost for them.

00:47:20: and there was me saying I have these skills like i could do this for you.

00:47:25: um so basically yeah I taught my way into a job that didn't exist because I was like These are the...these are my skills.

00:47:34: This is how what I can bring to the table?

00:47:36: This would..this is the benefit of doing this.

00:47:42: Like give me a shot you know, give me a contract and let's try this.

00:47:47: And I feel like that is probably the memory comes to mind because it really... That was the change put on my trajectory now which changed everything about my path but that opportunity would never have happened if i hadn't been one to create it!

00:48:08: If thats what I mean by pursuing what you want, it's like I feel an urge to do this or have a desire for this.

00:48:16: How could i go out there and do my best to make sure that opportunity actually manifests?

00:48:23: Yeah

00:48:24: yeah...I love that!

00:48:25: It is very unplanned question but its just coming into mind right now.

00:48:29: given your background as lawyer Do You Feel Like Being A Lawyer Equipped You With A Certain Set Of Confidence That Made It Easier To Ask For Certain Things?

00:48:41: Probably Probably yeah, because it's communication.

00:48:46: Yeah

00:48:47: sometimes you've got to be very not.

00:48:49: I don't know if cutthroat is the right word but sometimes that the lawsuits your witnessing or that i'm witnessing and like I don' t know if could argue this would my people please have come out?

00:49:00: Like generally a strong confident woman with pressure in certain environments...I don't

00:49:10: Just just do it without people seeing.

00:49:12: Yeah, I mean It's almost like a persona that you put on and go to work.

00:49:22: You can be completely terrified underneath but playing a role.

00:49:30: I think it's, this is probably the whole other conversation we could have but a lot of people talk about you know authenticity online and being a personal brand and how like.

00:49:38: don't be performative.

00:49:40: that's the messages Like.

00:49:42: You Don't Want to Be Performative And i'm like But you are!

00:49:45: We Are Playing A Role.

00:49:47: We Are Choosing What We Put Out Into The Public.

00:49:53: you're either authentic or your performative.

00:49:56: You can be both, completely authentic to yourself true-to-yourself and be performing a role because you are editing and curating a version of yourself that other people get to

00:50:07: see.".

00:50:08: And I think it's the same with whatever role you're in whether you're employed or not.

00:50:13: um...and whatever you're asking for is like what face do i want to put on right now?

00:50:20: to give myself the best chance of getting a result that I want.

00:50:25: Yeah, what an juicy turn this took!

00:50:30: For my last question for today i actually have like if you had to end the conversation with one your favourite one-liners?

00:50:40: What would it be before we get into that

00:50:43: one?!

00:50:44: I'm like, it's not either being performative or authentic.

00:50:51: You can be both.

00:50:52: that already has been a bar and i think a lot of people will very much appreciate hearing that.

00:50:58: because yeah this debate is so... Not top-of-mind but very popular

00:51:07: That the

00:51:07: word My work done wording today.

00:51:09: So im glad Im interviewing you instead.

00:51:11: But yeah, it's and I completely agree with you as well.

00:51:16: Like he will always be performative to a certain extent.

00:51:20: And i also do think there is so much nuance in being performative like You can be from a place of power and conviction?

00:51:27: And I always say like your brand should Be performative in the sense of Your brand is caricature Of yourself like Yeah best part of you or the parts you want To bring forward they are amplified an enhanced and highlighted but if that there can also be some kind of a fakeness in it.

00:51:47: And then you just feel one performance is more authentic, the other is more attempted but not well executed.

00:51:57: But as you said whole different conversations about hours.

00:52:02: So yeah I give me couple seconds for your favorites or one liner That we can end this beautiful conversation with.

00:52:10: So this is one from me.

00:52:11: This is, it's one of my lines as opposed to somebody else's quote but that is if they are not obsessed with you They Are Comparing You.

00:52:24: so we like to talk about.

00:52:28: you know competition Not Existing But Let's Just Be Real It Does.

00:52:33: If Somebody Is You Know Paying With Their Money They are making a choice as to who they put that money with and if you want it To be you then we've, We wanna make sure That there is no other choice.

00:52:50: It feels like You're in whole league of your own.

00:52:54: Um...they couldn't possibly Make different decision No matter what price.

00:52:59: And so thats why we wanna build obsession With people.

00:53:04: Its nothing to do our ego.

00:53:06: So the right people?

00:53:08: No, one hundred percent you're their person and they wouldn't even consider the other options

00:53:16: period.

00:53:18: Thank You so much for this juicy conversation today.

00:53:22: Like I'm very much activated right now And again it's like I don't want to say goodbye because I have eight hours worth of more questions.

00:53:32: I know we could.

00:53:32: we get

00:53:34: sure.

00:53:35: i'm gonna put all the links, all that information about you in The Show Notes so people can find you.

00:53:40: So if you're listening to this please please please find more about Susie and The Show Notes check her out connect with her.

00:53:47: right.

00:53:47: we've been talking about relationships.

00:53:49: I think i can speak for Susie when I say it's more than appreciated If someone drops in and is like hey!

00:53:56: I listened to this or saw this piece of yours And it really resonated with me even if its not directly an ask-to buy It still and appreciated connection point.

00:54:09: And so yeah, thank you for tuning into today's episode.

00:54:12: Thank you Susie for being here!

00:54:15: You're going to hear me in the next one.